America and terrorists?

[Dark Magician]

I am really very amazed about this information.
I think….!!! I was lived in mars.

Mr.Jan said

[Conchita]

[Jan]

Well, nothing to add really,
but a problem is that I am saying just what I remeber and
this has nothing to do with my personal attitude.
Exept a fact that I was shocked when somebody who supposed to be the "pilot station" was shuting angry at me
on radio that I completly confused called captain who after few tries
confirm that "Ja Ja schlepper 100 m".
He also added some hard comments
This man - pilot and big boss of the port was later accting like a monarch.
Well if You are sure about that You beatiful country is fine
well good for You.
USA looks just diffrent but be sure some places are making "even worse impression"
Poland as I said was in past very similar for me somehow.
I am sure you love it as it is I would do the same probably.

It is important to understand each other but it sometimes
also necessery to listen to each other and trust a bit.
I am quite sure that You will find a lot of friends in Isreal
and USA and in Poland.
Politic is stinking and if it is here or there I wouldn't waste
my life again for any country.
Americans Europieans or Arabs meet togeather are out of their history just nice.

Regards
Jan

I don't expect You to believe me now but think what if I have some right.

[Jan]

Is it the truth or maybe just misinterpratation
but Hezbollah had attacked Israelis soldiers on Isreal teritory
killing some and kidnapping some of them one or two persons.
What was it a beginning of this war or was this just a stupid mishap.
I am afraid that normally as You said , this may be taken as the war declaration.
Justice and once more justice.
Regards and peace.
Jan
In Israel are many many people who are against any killing
against any military action and posible it is majority
of population,but they never win the elections if their voices
are overwhelmed by fear and agression.
Esperanto for everybody

[Tamara]

Guys, do you actually believe that your virtual firefight will improve the world? The site?
_________________
It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water…

[Jamie (K)]

Herc, you're using a typical propaganda trick that the Arabs use constantly. Display a picture that will arouse emotion in the viewer, but don't explain what happened before or after or even what the picture really shows.

Yes, it's horrible to see the face of a victim of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However, the way you deal with it is just to show the picture out of context, and we're just supposed to think that the whole Japanese nation was sitting around, minding their own business when suddenly the Americans dropped a nuclear bomb on them just to be evil.

The United States stayed out of World War II even as the Japanese were attacking and taking over countries in a large part of the Pacific. China was our ally at the time, so we should have defended them, but we just stood there while the Japanese invaded and eventually killed more than 20 million people (35 million, if you believe the Chinese) and made refugees out of 95 million people. (If these statistics sound high to you, look them up.) FINALLY, in 1941, when the Japanese air force attacked the US navy in Hawaii, we entered the war. We lost a total of more than 11 million soldiers in World War II, not to mention the number of soldiers lost by Australia and other allies, and an attack on the Japanese mainland would have cost too many more lives. The decision was made to use one nuclear bomb. Hiroshima was destroyed, and the Allies requested that Japan surrender. They refused, and so the second one was dropped. The injured face of the man in the photograph doesn't give any indication that the Japanese government had been responsible for the deaths of more than 50 million people by the time the bomb was dropped, and that no one had provoked them. It also does not indicate that the bomb got Japan to surrender (which talking did not do), and that Japan became a peaceful democracy after that.

Just because one side of a conflict has more power doesn't mean that it's wrong.

As for the Abu Graib pictures, I think it's interesting that you probably imagine that I have not seen them. They were in our newspapers and on TV day after day, and in a very negative light, of course. You probably don't know (or don't care) that the media only got the stories and pictures after the US military had begun investigating the abuses. The American soldiers who performed those atrocities have been arrested, tried in a court martial and are now in prison. In contrast, Arabs don't arrest people like Mr. Al-Zarqawi or others who kidnap people and cut off their heads, or who send 14-year-old girls with bomb belts to blow up pizzerias. In fact, Muslims praise them, and send them more money. Those Muslims who don't praise them say it's a tragedy and then say "BUT" and proceed to defend their actions.

In another matter: Notice that in 1978 Egypt concluded a peace agreement with Israel in which Egypt was given back land in return for peace. There has been no war between Egypt and Israel since. In 2000, an accord was signed between Lebanon and Israel in which Israel would withdraw from Lebanon and that a cease fire would follow. After the Israelis withdrew, Hezbollah kept lobbing rockets into Israel, more than 1,000 in six years. The Lebanese government didn't do anything to stop Hezbollah from doing that. Finally the Israelis had to make it stop. Like the Nazis, Islamic militant groups, don't want peace, and they only use peace negotiations as a tool of war.

Muslims do not live as brothers with Christians in most Muslim countries, especially those ruled by Shariah law. I read plenty about their situation from eyewitnesses, and I meet a lot of them and hear their stories face to face. This whole idea of Islamic tolerance of other religions is a lie, as are so many other things that so many Muslims tell me. Certain individual Muslims may be tolerant, but Islamic society in general, and especially Shariah law, is not. Muslims can't convince me otherwise, because years of day-to-day experience with Muslims from the Arab countries have conditioned me to assume that I have to check everything an Arab Muslim tells me, because there's about a 50 percent chance that he's lying -- not just about politics or religion, but about anything. I find certain Arabs trustworthy, and I have never had a problem with Muslims from places like Indonesia, but those from the Middle East are big on lying and various sorts of scamming, in my own personal experience.

And don't even get me into Muslim religious propaganda. The religion was spread through violence right from the time of Mohammed, and they continue to spread it by threatening people or killing people to spread fear in others. There are quite a few writers who are very critical of Christianity, and they do not have to hide. Many writers who criticize Islam get death threats and have to go into hiding. And, as with other things, I find that Muslims lie about their religion when it suits their purpose.

[Jamie (K)]

[Jan]

[Tamara]

Jan… you perhaps know the history… and, I suppose, XX century has concentrated in itself more than several previous centuries…

The truth?…
The history is a strange thing… Not to mention Orwell,…, etc

Seeking the truth always has it’s cost, are we ready to pay it here, on this language learning site?

…My attitude is:
- There are quite many historical events about which we NEVER will know the truth at all; only someone’s interpretations;
- There is not the only truth for all, for everyone ‘the truth’, at last, is always subjective. And the sad thing is that when you (we) become actually serious with that, we always need to make a choice. The side, I mean…
- I know well the effect of brainwashing; that make me sure that there is no sense to discuss some themes with anyone brainwashed carefully;
- There are themes on which I have to say something, as I in my life have happened to have quite many conversations with true witnesses of some great events. I saw plenty of true documentary, believe me… And I have the... proper family history - quite enough to hate some things like 'communism', etc,
But I wouldn’t start any public discussion here, as I think, this is just a fuel.

Or, to use the specific term - stirring up national hatred.

…For example, Holocaust (especially in its modern interpretation) is another excellent theme to discuss it ‘seeking the truth’…

… Jan, you perhaps know well, that when ‘the truth’ becomes more important than everything else (good people relationships, etc), one group of people becomes ready to destroy half a world (virtual or real) - or even all of it - to ‘put things right’.
_________________
It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water…

[Jan]

Of cource it is very hard and almost have no sense
this is a fuel
but let's hope it works ...with time very slowly.

Americans have also some"feelings" and what they think about things like these , just guess??

10 years ago I have seen in Sfax (a port Town in Tuniesia) a group of young people togeather with moslem prist they were just same as in my country praying youngs attached to some churches loughing joking with some books
the girl on wheel chair had even a guitar.
I stoped on red light and watched them passing me by with gentle smile.
The last one - boy in black European suit with some plastic brown sun glasses suddenly stopped come very very close to me
and face to face something like 20 centimeters
was saying in whisper: F...You , F..You , F...You with blind anger
Tunisia is modern and quite liberate compare to the rest of Arabs countries,but the important for me was my own surprise.

I haven't expected this.

We couldn't talk we couldn't explain anything we were suddenly
like enemies even without one gesture somebody else had done the "job " on this boy I was only anonimous receiver.

Regards
Jan

History is complicated and nothing surely is simple.
I don't understand this myself but some of history
we would be always involved in unfortunatly.

[Dark Magician]

Jamie (K)

Now, I am sure you are have psychic ill,

you are such blind man or you have color blind and everybody say to you this color is Red and you say no this color is black.

anyway we are live in problem's heart and we see the truth.... not like you just you sat on your house and hear to what say your government.

[Spencer]

Guys, guys,
take it easy!
Do anyone of you think that you can convince the other?
Really?
Mba, if you say it's red, and he says it's black, there's no possible way to explain anything about the subject.
You guys both are patriots, you both fight for your principals, and countries (by words thank God).
I respect you guys for it, I wish I could feel the same about my own country.
You can't be sure how would you feel, if you was born in the opposit country, if you Jamie was an Arab, and Mba was American.
Jamie is brainwashed by the media, Mba is abset about the things are going on in his own neighbourhood.
(no blame here, damn, I wouldn't be too hapy either if my enemies ruled my country)
Looks like you have two choice:
- shooting at each other till one of you dies (of being too old hopefully) like a regular solgier
- look up to each others, like marshals , 'cause they know they are the same, it's only a bad luck they fighting each other.
I'd prefer you both behave like pros.
Especially you Jamie, 'cause you are
-a moderator
-not the one whos friends die day by day in front of your eyes, if you know what I mean.
Spencer

[Jan]

I have read Jamie post and I can't see the same as You.
Am I blind?
I knew alot of people agree the very great part of resistance in
Iraq, Liban ,Palestina have nothing to do with terrorist.
Probably nobody around would question this.
But it is still a little to do with French ressistance
(as far as I know).
I forgive You any liar etc and just hope that You would
trust a bit others ,as well as I trust You that this is in the good faith what you are saying.
Regards
Jan
Esperanto for everybody

[Tamara]

I agree with spencer – never on the Internet I saw that someone could actually bring around somebody else who had strong initial attitude.

Anyway, guys, you have no agreement about what evidence you are ready to consider as evidence (facts, validations, etc)
That’s the main point why you can not actually discuss it – no one accept other’s ‘arguments’ as arguments.

Too much emotions… and the final purpose of this … discussion is rather vague…

Jan, it seems to me that (sometimes) you are aimed and interested in just to understanding the reasons for that hate you met - at any cost.
Rather than to keeping peace on this, previously quite peaceful and friendly, site.

To me the second is much more important.

Let's be more constructive. And... moderate.
_________________
It’s impossible to learn swimming without entering the water…

[Hercules]

Hi Salmon ...

until now there isn't any discussion with you .you should pick your location and be proud of that ,then come on to have a decent discussion ..

PS . Are you shy to pick your location ???
and I think I've warned you about sharks .. be careful .. ..Sharks like eat you ...Mr Salmon



Herc