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If required vs if need be vs :) if necessary



 
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If required vs if need be vs :) if necessary #1 (permalink) Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:29 am   If required vs if need be vs :) if necessary
 

Hi

I know that the patterns are in use and have quite similar meanings. According with BNC, Google, dictionaries and what I myself read.

Generally.
Do you normally/often/ever use the subjunctive form if need be (or even 'if need were Smile)
in writing?

In particular.
I am now writing an answer to an e-mail that, in fact, is a quite formal letter containing such extra phrases as ‘I should very much like to meet you sometime soon..’, ‘When you have received the <….> perhaps you could <…>’ and the like.

Which expression would be better to use if I want to express that by now (in my own understanding) I seem to have done all what was required by formal rules, but for some reasons I suppose that the other part can rise some additional (and essential!) requirements – just after reading my answer. Smile

Does '..., if required' express that?
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Tamara
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If required vs if need be vs if necessary #2 (permalink) Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:00 pm   If required vs if need be vs if necessary
 

Hi Tamara

The phrase "if need be" is a fixed phrase and I'd use it to mean "if necessary" or "if needed".

For the purposes of the letter you're describing, it seems to me that you should stick with saying "if necessary" or "if needed". Those phrases are quite standard and I see no reason not to use them in a formal letter.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Wink (In other words, I'd suggest you do your experimenting with "if need be" somewhere else before you try to include it in an important letter. -OR- Give us the whole sentence that you want to use it in.)

I'd say you could use "if required", but I'd still tend to prefer "if necessary" or "if needed".

Amy

PS
I would never say "if need were" Shocked
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Perfect is the enemy of the good :) #3 (permalink) Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:35 pm   Perfect is the enemy of the good :)
 

Hi Amy,
Quote:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Uh-huh.
Another good saying is 'Perfect is the enemy of the good'. Smile

I’ve just sent my answer with if needed.
Thanks a lot, Amy.

P.S.
Quote:
The phrase "if need be" is a fixed phrase and I'd use it…
Quote:
I would never say "if need were"

Even in the Reported speech (in the case when the Direct one contains 'if need be')?
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Tamara
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Perfect is the enemy of the good :) #4 (permalink) Fri Sep 08, 2006 13:09 pm   Perfect is the enemy of the good :)
 

Tamara wrote:
Quote:
I would never say "if need were"

Even in the Reported speech (in the case when the Direct one contains 'if need be')?

No, Tamara, I seriously doubt that even my constant exposure to prescriptive grammar books would lead me to report that phrase any other way than "if need be" Laughing

I'm quite certain that what would come out of my (American) mouth would be something like:
"He said he'd do it if need be." Twisted Evil Laughing

But I wouldn't have any trouble saying:
"He said he'd do it if it were needed/necessary."
- OR -
"He said he'd do it if needed/necessary." (That solves the whole "BE" problem quite neatly, doesn't it? Laughing Wink Laughing)

Amy
Yankee
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
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If required vs if need be vs if necessary #5 (permalink) Fri Sep 08, 2006 15:19 pm   If required vs if need be vs if necessary
 

Amy, you did not say anything about if required? Is it synonymous with if needed?

Tom
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If required vs if need be vs :) if necessary #6 (permalink) Fri Sep 08, 2006 15:52 pm   If required vs if need be vs :) if necessary
 

Yankee wrote:
I'd say you could use "if required", but I'd still tend to prefer "if necessary" or "if needed".

Hi Tom

Actually, I did mention "as required". Wink
It's really not much different from "if needed", but to me the tone of it is "harder".

Amy
Yankee
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
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If need were #7 (permalink) Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:00 am   If need were
 

Hi Amy,
Thank you for the explanation.
Quote:
No, Tamara, I seriously doubt that even my constant exposure to prescriptive grammar books would lead me to report that phrase any other way than "if need be"

You are absolutely right, if need were isn’t in use, in fact.

I’ve found it only with the (and it seems to be not that Subjunctive form. Smile Or what? Smile )
Quote:
To raise the cavalry force needed in his French and Scottish wars, Edward I sought to extend the principle of military obligation to all members of the knightly class and others who held land worth either ?40 a year or, if the need were especially pressing, ?20.
(c) BNC
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If required vs if need be vs :) if necessary #8 (permalink) Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:36 am   If required vs if need be vs :) if necessary
 

Hi Tamara

Yes, exactly! The words need and were can be used together, I just wouldn't change the "stand-alone" phrase "if need be".

"... if it were needed."
"... if the need were not too dire."
etc.

Amy
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA

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