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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'



 
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ESL Forum | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
What's past a participle? | Meaning of "hoarding may result"
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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #1 (permalink) Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:23 pm   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Hi

Could you say whether expressions 'without (a) trace' and 'without traces' mean (to you) exactly the same?
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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #2 (permalink) Sat Nov 11, 2006 13:01 pm   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Both 'without a trace' and 'without traces' have basically the same meaning (to me). Yet the singular form seems to be preferred, especially in expressions like 'she's vanished without a trace', meaning 'leaving nothing behind to show where she has gone'. Also, 'without a trace of sorrow', for example.

But: 'contains traces of sugar/nuts, etc.', rather than 'a trace'. Sometines, both can be used: 'there's no trace/there're no traces of alcohol in the blood.
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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #3 (permalink) Sat Nov 11, 2006 13:07 pm   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Thanks, Conchita.

The reason I asked was that to me ‘a trace’ (in this without-context) has – mainly - the meaning ‘a path’ (a track?),
whereas ‘traces’ can be just ‘a set’ (of traces. Signs, evidence, whatever).

So, to me ‘He disappeared without a trace’ and ‘disappeared without traces’ have a bit different meanings.
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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #4 (permalink) Sat Nov 11, 2006 14:52 pm   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Hi,

As Conchita has said, the usual phrase is 'without a trace' suggesting that there no sign or indication where/how someone/thing has disappeared (to). As soon as you come to 'traces' it takes on a different meaning in the physical sense of sign. To illustrate:

At first there was a belief that she had disappeared without a trace but further investigations showed that there were traces of blood on the garden path.

To be continued .... Agatha Christie

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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #5 (permalink) Sat Nov 11, 2006 16:07 pm   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Tamara wrote:
The reason I asked was that to me ‘a trace’ (in this without-context) has – mainly - the meaning ‘a path’ (a track?),

That sounds like a technology-influenced understanding of the word 'trace' (trace route...). Have I guessed correctly? Cool Very Happy

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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #6 (permalink) Sat Nov 11, 2006 20:49 pm   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Thanks, Alan. Your and Conchita's explanations of the general use (‘without a trace’) are crystal-clear.
And Agatha Christie is highly convincing, as usual. Smile

Amy, you’re right. Smile
In Computing:
Quote:
Trace: (1) A record of the execution of a computer program, showing the sequence of instructions executed, the names and values of variables, or both. Types include execution trace, retrospective trace, subroutine trace, symbolic trace, variable trace.

http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/trace (among dozens of other meanings of 'trace')

Also, the progress of a project is always traced.

Another cause (for my cranky view Smile ) is that I, with my Russian background, definitely would say
'hounds took/picked up the fox trace' (= a sequence or a chain of 'traces' that’s left by the fox. That can be used to find the fox or to trace its way).
Now, having had a look at a dictionary, I've learnt that you use 'track' or 'trail' in this case.

OK.
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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #7 (permalink) Sat Nov 11, 2006 20:56 pm   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Hi,

Just thought I'd a bit more on 'trace'. Airplanes can trace a pattern in the sky,you can trace your ancestors, you can trace an outline through thin paper. In my childhood using tracing paper was an activity indulged in before the advent of all the distractions of the computer age.

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'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces' #8 (permalink) Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:05 am   'without (a) trace' vs 'without traces'
 

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the excursion. I'm not that glaringly young and know the tracing paper - not just by hearsay Smile

Quote:
...before the advent of all the distractions of the computer age
I woudn't even presume to estimate how many people now learn their first English words from the computer screen...

Taking the computer (English) jargon imprintingly.
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