Funny but respectable

[Jamie (K)]

What do you all think about this situation?

In my evening ESL class, I've now got a woman in her 60s, from Poland, who has lived in the United States for 40 years but is only now starting to learn English. It's relatively common in my city for Polish people (and Arabs) not to learn English. This woman speaks a pidgin language of Polish mixed with English and a little German that is spoken in one specific part of the city. I think this language has been spoken here for more than 100 years, and most of the people who speak it cannot speak English.

Well, this woman has a problem, because she often can't stop herself from speaking this mixed language instead of English, and the other students think that the things she says are extremely funny! One day she was saying something that no one could understand, but they knew that it was about a person named George. Then they figured out that she was talking about a court trial, and that she thought "George" meant "judge". She thought they were the same word. The class went completely crazy laughing at her, and they often imitate the many Polish words that are mixed into her speech.

I have mixed feelings about this situation:

1. You have to admire the woman for having the courage to start learning English when she is past 60 years old, and you have to admire the effort she's putting into it.

2. On the other hand, if you wait 40 years to fix your English, your language is going to be a really big mess. Why didn't she take ESL when she first came to the US in her 20s? The classes were free! What she's suffering now is completely predictable.

3. Besides, many of the things she says really are funny!

What's your opinion of this situation?

[Ahmadov]

I wonder how she feels when others laugh at her...
_________________
Learning is a sacred engagement.

[Jamie (K)]

[FangFang]

Hi,
Firstly I also admire that lady for her courage to learn English again( Because I think she must have learnt some English during the past 40 years), and what's more ,whenever it is,20 or 60 ,the age won't be a problem for study .
What I am interested in is, that I wonder how languages could be like if they are mixed together,

[Yankee]

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When you are learning a language, it's basically inevitable that some of the errors you make will be hilarious -- especially to native speakers. When a native speaker laughs at such an error, they're usually not laughing at you, but rather at what you have said. This happened to me plenty of times when I was learning German in Germany. I accepted and actually enjoyed the fact that my error had made my German friends and acquaintances laugh, but I also made a point of not making the same mistake again.

My experience as an English teacher in Germany tells me that the people who are most critical of language errors are the other learners.

Jamie, the same sort of thing that you described is not uncommon in Germany. In the part of Germany where I lived, there are quite a few Turkish people (especially women) who never learned more than a few words of German even though Germany is their permanent residence and they've lived in Germany for years. My personal opinion is that you should learn the language of the country you live in. The situation for the Turkish women I mentioned is that they typically stay at home and raise kids -- who also learn Turkish and end up starting school with little knowledge of German. And there are usually plenty of other Turkish people in the neighborhood with whom to speak Turkish. Unfortunately, it's easy for these women to get by without learning German. Even though there are plenty of free German courses available, the motivation to learn German often just isn't there. A woman with a bunch of kids may also feel she just doesn't have the time for a language course. By the time the kids are grown, she may well have decided that if she was able to manage without German while raising the kids, why bother to learn German after they're grown.
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[Jamie (K)]

[Prezbucky]

FangFang

I've read (and was taught in at least one class, including the proverbial Linguistics 101) that non-native languages are easiest to learn at an early age.

that said, by the time someone is 20 years old, perhaps she has moved out of that young-learning "hot zone" phase and entered full linguistic adulthood, at which point it (presumably) is as difficult to learn a new language as it is when she is 60.

IE, once you're no longer a kid (whenever that is), it is equally difficult to learn a new language at any future age. (20, 30, 50, 80, etc.).

This is interesting, I think:

Once you're no longer a kid (whenever that is), is it equally difficult to learn a new language at any future age?

OR

As age increases, is there a parallel increase in the difficulty of learning language(s)?
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Jamie (K)]

Newer research shows that people learn foreign languages when they are teenagers much better than when they are children. Both teenagers and adults are better at learning languages than small children are, and the researchers aren't sure whether adults are worse because they simply have less social contact and time to spend at the task, or whether there really is a decrease in language learning ability.

[Yankee]

Hi Jamie

I would agree that hostility towards the host country is sometimes the cause, but I don't think I would say that it's always or mostly the case.

I think it often is simply a question of what is comfortable, easy and convenient. Speaking your native language with people who share a common language and cultural background is typically more comfortable, easy and convenient than speaking a foreign language with people, especially when the culture is very different from your own.

You also see this with many Americans who live in Germany. However, a difference here is that most of the Americans in Germany are not there permanently. Members of the American armed forces who are stationed there often do not see any need to learn much German since they are usually only going to be in Germany for a couple of years. Some go to the trouble to learn German, but many hardly learn any. The US government also ensures that they can get by without learning German by providing housing, shopping, schools, etc. in English. And the Germans themselves can make it easier for an English speaker to avoid learning German because many Germans are interested in improving their English by speaking English with native speakers.

Having worked in many international companies in Germany, I'm well aware that native speakers of any one particular language tend to find one another and also socialize with each other. To me, the main reason is that communication is simply more comfortable, easy and convenient.
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[FangFang]

[Prezbucky]

Jamie

It's neat to hear that the verdict has changed somewhat. Of course, it made sense to me when I learned (in 1995) that kids pick up languages better than adults -- I went along with the "blank slate" explanation.

The idea then was that time spent immersed in one language decreases a person's ability to learn different languages.

Kids, because they are new to language and have not perhaps become "stuck" in one, are able to pick up different languages with greater ease.

That was the explanation back then, if memory serves.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Conchita]

[Jamie (K)]

[Yankee]

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I have witnessed the great speed at which young children pick up English on several occasions.

A German friend of mine went to Philadelphia with his wife and 4-year-old daughter (on a two-year job assignment). The daughter was immediately enrolled in a local pre-school program. When I visited them six months later, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the English skills of their by then 5-year-old daughter. She was a regular little motor mouth in English and any errors she made tended to be those of a native speaker.
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[Jamie (K)]