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 #2 (permalink) Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:47 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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| I don't think any "language" is good or bad, you could argue that some of the cultural traits that were present in the language or the popularity of movies ,tv,music in a certain language could be considered harmful but what trumps any negative effect is the fact that we can communicate with most people (or a large portion) of the world in english, it could be any language but as it happens to stand its english that is the only true "universal" language. The ability to communicate our thoughts,fears,dreams makes any "universal" language a force of good |
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Boke
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| #3 (permalink) Sat Dec 29, 2007 21:09 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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No language is inherently better or worse than any other language. The lingua franca was once Greek, once Latin, once French (in the West at least); it happens to be English now. A common tongue makes business and diplomacy (not to mention tourism) much easier. The problem with the global prevalence of any language is that many native speakers are discouraged from taking on the challenge of learning foreign languages because they assume everyone else in the world knows theirs.
Were it not English that was widely spoken, it would be another language, so I don't see the problem. |
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Screenager
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| #4 (permalink) Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:17 am Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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| screenager wrote: | | The problem with the global prevalence of any language is that many native speakers are discouraged from taking on the challenge of learning foreign languages because they assume everyone else in the world knows theirs. |
You forgot the problem that when they're abroad, native speakers of English are frequently not ALLOWED by people to practice any other language, so they have fewer opportunities to improve their foreign languages. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #5 (permalink) Sun Dec 30, 2007 23:51 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | You forgot the problem that when they're abroad, native speakers of English are frequently not ALLOWED by people to practice any other language, so they have fewer opportunities to improve their foreign languages. |
I didn't forget it because I've never heard of it happening - not in the the UK, at least. Since the study of foreign languages ceased to be compulsory for teenagers here, there has been a massive drop in uptake and it's down to simple laziness, not prohibition. The prevailing attitude is, "Why bother learning French when you can take Road Traffic Studies or Film Studies? When you go on holiday, everyone speaks English anyway." |
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Screenager
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| #6 (permalink) Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:09 am Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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| screenager wrote: | | Jamie (K) wrote: | | You forgot the problem that when they're abroad, native speakers of English are frequently not ALLOWED by people to practice any other language, so they have fewer opportunities to improve their foreign languages. |
I didn't forget it because I've never heard of it happening - not in the the UK, at least. Since the study of foreign languages ceased to be compulsory for teenagers here, there has been a massive drop in uptake and it's down to simple laziness, not prohibition. The prevailing attitude is, "Why bother learning French when you can take Road Traffic Studies or Film Studies? When you go on holiday, everyone speaks English anyway." |
That's been the attitude in the United States since they eliminated compulsory foreign language instruction in both high schools and many universities. In the US part of that change has been due to poor instruction that leaves the kids unequipped to actually use the languages to any meaningful degree. People assume, then, that since there's no result, then there's no reason to study the language.
However, native English speakers who try to learn a foreign language are liable to have the obstacle of its native speakers not allowing them to use it. Try learning German and going to Germany or Austria to use it. If you're asked a question in German and you hesitate for a split second, your interlocutor will start speaking English to you. People visiting an English-speaking country often insist that Anglophones not speak anything but English to them, because they travel for the purpose of improving their language. So, if the American, the Brit or the Australian goes abroad, people insist on speaking English, and if he stays in his country, people also insist on speaking English. Then there's the other problem that foreigners who are willing to speak their own language with an English speaker will needlessly pepper their speech with English words and phrases that are not used in their own country.
Basically, the odds of becoming fluent are stacked against the native English speaker in a way that they are not against people who are learning English. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #7 (permalink) Mon Dec 31, 2007 20:16 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | However, native English speakers who try to learn a foreign language are liable to have the obstacle of its native speakers not allowing them to use it. Try learning German and going to Germany or Austria to use it. If you're asked a question in German and you hesitate for a split second, your interlocutor will start speaking English to you. People visiting an English-speaking country often insist that Anglophones not speak anything but English to them, because they travel for the purpose of improving their language. So, if the American, the Brit or the Australian goes abroad, people insist on speaking English, and if he stays in his country, people also insist on speaking English. Then there's the other problem that foreigners who are willing to speak their own language with an English speaker will needlessly pepper their speech with English words and phrases that are not used in their own country.
Basically, the odds of becoming fluent are stacked against the native English speaker in a way that they are not against people who are learning English. |
That's a fair point in business settings, but there's nothing to stop one from trying to improve one's foreign language in informal settings, which is better than nothing.
The situation you mentioned is a frustration to anyone aiming for fluency; my gripe is that so many English speakers refuse to try to become competent in another language. |
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Screenager
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| #8 (permalink) Mon Dec 31, 2007 22:18 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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I tried to force my limited (very limited) French down Parisians' throats, and they generally did not appreciate it.
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Prezbucky
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| #9 (permalink) Mon Dec 31, 2007 22:23 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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...and I am a prideful person when it comes to languages (even though I knew I didn't know much French) so at about the time it started to dawn on me that they didn't like me trying to speak their language without knowing it... I started butchering it on purpose and feigning the French accent favored by Americans who don't like the French.
"ComMENT allEZ VOUS!"
"Je rech@'CHe les poissONS."
"m@-SEE"
hehe
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Prezbucky
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| #10 (permalink) Mon Dec 31, 2007 22:25 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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I figured I was butchering it anyway, and I'd be damned if I was going to give up trying... so I decided to have a bit of fun with it.
It actually made them laugh a bit -- I think they knew, and they'd rather I acknowledge my shortcomings with sarcasm than for me to go on thinking I actually could speak their language to their standards... to keep trying but to perpetually fail.
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Prezbucky
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| #11 (permalink) Mon Dec 31, 2007 22:28 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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Needless to say, if I go back to France, I'll speak English.
(except for, you know, "please" and "thank you" and maybe "c'est va?")
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Prezbucky
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| #12 (permalink) Mon Dec 31, 2007 22:31 pm Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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| prezbucky wrote: | | I tried to force my limited (very limited) French down Parisians' throats, and they generally did not appreciate it. |
Yes, I also found that the Parisians are meaner to foreigners who try to speak French than they are to foreigners who can't speak French.
So, let's see. They don't like it if we don't speak French, and they don't like it if we do speak French. Maybe they just don't like us. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #13 (permalink) Tue Jan 01, 2008 0:06 am Is there an excess of English language presence around the planet? |
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no matter what we do, we offend them
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Prezbucky
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