Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?

Torsten · Sat Mar 15, 2008 14:25 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Maybe the question should is the 'Internet helping promote and reinforce mistakes made by ESL speakers'? There are lots of grammatically incorrect phrases floating around on the Internet. For example, if you google the phrase 'look forward to hear from you', you get more than 70.000 results. So, how useful is googling phrases as a means of learning English grammar?
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Lost_Soul · Sat Mar 15, 2008 17:14 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Hi, Torsten
Yes, googling is not a very reliable source for gathering info on the English grammar, but then again, try googling the right variant, i.e. "look forward to hearing from you" and you got yourself upwards of 2 million hits (versus 70000). So, things aren't that bad after all.

Yankee · Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:00 am *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Judging Google search results only by the sheer number of results isn't enough. You have to look at and analyze what Google has found for you.

For example, when I googled "look forward to see", Google presented me with a whopping 1,110,000 results:
Google search for "look forward to see"

However, if you take the time to look at the very first result, you will see these words:

Jamie (K) · Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:40 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

I think that the Internet is reinforcing people's bad English, but not because they're googling phrases. It's mainly happening for a different reason.

In some English-speaking countries, since the 1960s, schools have stopped stressing grammar, spelling and punctuation, to the point where it's now possible to graduate from high school in some towns without ever having had any grammar instruction. This wouldn't be such a problem if teachers were correcting children's grammar when they write, but increasingly this isn't happening, and in some US schools the teachers are even forbidden to teach or correct anyone's grammar.

So, some of the bad English on the Internet is there just because native speakers don't know how to write. (A lot of teachers are appalled by this, but it's a reflection of their own bad educational policies.) Add to that the fact that people abbreviate in chat rooms, and this has a very bad effect on the English of ESL learners who use the Internet a lot.

Over the past few years it's become increasingly common in the US to get students in ESL class who have learned to write almost exclusively from chat rooms, and many of them can't (or won't) adapt to the demands of correct college writing. The student I saw who had the worst problems was one who had picked up Ebonics at work as her main form of spoken English, and had also spent massive time in chat rooms. Then she had to learn "correct" English in college, but she didn't make it through the semester.

Lost_Soul · Mon Mar 17, 2008 13:25 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Jamie (K) · Mon Mar 17, 2008 14:18 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Torsten · Mon Mar 17, 2008 21:56 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

I don't think the Internet is to blame for the fact that some people are learning and using non-standard or incorrect English. If a person person spends lot of time in chatrooms where they pick up 'chatroom English', it's their decision and not the Internet's faults. That person could have used the Internet to read academic papers and compose essays just the same. Holding the Internet responsible for somebody's bad English is a bit like saying "I'm fact because of McDonald's".

It depends on you how you use the Internet. You can ask native speakers grammar and vocabulary questions, have them point out mistakes in your essay and exchange ideas and resources that help you improve your English.

For example, if not for the Internet I wouldn't have known that Americans say at quarter of 12 more often that 'at quarter to 12'.
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Jamie (K) · Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:52 am *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Yankee · Tue Mar 18, 2008 14:27 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Jamie (K) · Tue Mar 18, 2008 17:21 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

Amy, Torsten said that he had read on the Internet (from you) that Americans say "a quarter of 12" more than they say "a quarter to 12". I think this is wrong. I'm not saying that "a quarter of 12" is wrong or that it's not widespread. I'm just arguing that it's not more common in the US than "a quarter to 12". In my opinion, the "quarter to" option is far more common, but I'd have to find a dialect map to be absolutely sure. I'm going to try to find one.

I know for certain that in my area "five of" or "ten of" is relatively uncommon, and "quarter of" isn't wrong but also isn't typical. I probably understand them if I hear them and don't think about them, but if I think about them I start wondering if the "of" means before or after.

Student Guru · Tue Apr 15, 2008 21:28 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

I don't think the internet is responsible for the many problems associated with learning a new language. The internet is simply an advanced platform for people to share information, I have never seen someone use a new word or phrase that they "found" on the internet. Grammatical errors and blunders will always exist in any media platform.

I have personally come across spelling and grammar mistakes in everything from a University textbook to several major national magazines. Human nature is most likely the root of the cause, as people either don't have the time to proof-read or underestimate the importance of NOT having any spelling/grammar errors in their work.

These grammatical errors and "play on words" can be extremely confusing for an ESL student, and it takes TIME and PATIENCE in order to become aware of them. These were not created by the internet, they have been around for decades and are well-established in the English language.

To acquire these skills, one should keep a list of all the sayings and phrases they are unsure of and then research them. You CAN research them over the internet, but then you leave yourself open to contradicting translations. That's why it is important to check these confusing phrases with a trusted friend or colleague who has mastered the English language. They will hopefully lead you in the right direction, and if not then you can always join a forum and seek assistance from others.

HamburgEnglish · Fri Apr 18, 2008 16:30 pm *Is the Internet facilitating 'bad English'?*

NOW THAT IS AN INTERESTING POINT !

"Bad English"?

What exactly is bad English?

In my books bad English is the use of the language that makes communication ambiguous or makes the language excessively loose rythm moreover makes an explanation impossible to understand, or does not give a picture/perception of that trying to be achieved. The picture/perception thing is one that in my books is allowable until it breaches the unseen rules of feeling. Think Japanese manufacturer documentation of the past! or (hiding low) some German company documentation of the present. (now running very fast away ... smile) Hey but that is why we have jobs in Germany and lets face it, made in Germany products are normally good!

Too Complex? I am, dont ask me about it!

Rob

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