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 #32 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:09 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | What kinds of dialect-discrimination have you inflicted on others or been the victim of?
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| Quote: | Is it true that in New York City, there are numerous classes offered to New Yorkers who want to lose their "New Yorkese"?
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I suppose it's quite touching. The little fellow affects to despise the native speakers' answers; and yet he persists in asking "them" questions.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #33 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:11 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | | I suppose it's quite touching. The little fellow affects to despise the native speakers' answers; and yet he persists in asking "them" questions. |
Why do you assume those questions were only addressed to native speakers? |
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Molly
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| #34 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:13 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | I suppose it's quite touching. The little fellow affects to despise the native speakers' answers; and yet he persists in asking "them" questions. |
Why do you assume those questions were only addressed to native speakers? |
I rest my case.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #35 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:14 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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Probably a case for understanding more about other people's dialects:
"The most terrible case is suicide because of dialect discrimination. A girl killed herself when she was only 12 years old. She moved to the countryside, from Tokyo. Her new classmates did not like her dialect at all. She spoke standard Japanese so she did not have any dialect like her new classmates. Standard Japanese is not so warm as local dialect, some people think that it is very cold. Because of her dialect, everyone thought she mocked them because of their provincialism, but she did not. Then they started offend her physically and psychologically. She could endure the fact that everyone treated her unkindly and unfairly. Finally, she thought she could not suffer anymore, so she hanged herself."
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~sford/alternatv/sum05/news/saki_personal_exp.htm |
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Molly
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| #36 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:17 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | Probably a case for understanding more about other people's dialects:
"The most terrible case is suicide because of dialect discrimination. A girl killed herself when she was only 12 years old. She moved to the countryside, from Tokyo. Her new classmates did not like her dialect at all. She spoke standard Japanese so she did not have any dialect like her new classmates. Standard Japanese is not so warm as local dialect, some people think that it is very cold. Because of her dialect, everyone thought she mocked them because of their provincialism, but she did not. Then they started offend her physically and psychologically. She could endure the fact that everyone treated her unkindly and unfairly. Finally, she thought she could not suffer anymore, so she hanged herself."
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~sford/alternatv/sum05/news/saki_personal_exp.htm |
How many kids does that happen to every year who DON'T kill themselves? Probably hundreds -- maybe thousands. They find ways to cope, which can include making a couple of close friends, or becoming bidialectal. I've seen some do it.
The problem wasn't mainly the discrimination, it was the girl. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #37 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:24 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | "The most terrible case is suicide because of dialect discrimination. A girl killed herself when she was only 12 years old....so she hanged herself."
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Where is the "openly legitimised dialect discrimination", in that story?
I note by the way that her schoolfellows thought she discriminated against them, because she spoke "standard Japanese".
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #38 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:33 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | | Where is the "openly legitimised dialect discrimination", in that story? |
Should there be some?
| Quote: | | I note by the way that her schoolfellows thought she discriminated against them, because she spoke "standard Japanese". |
Not sure what your point is. Do you think they didn't discriminate against her? |
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Molly
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| #39 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:37 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | | How many kids does that happen to every year who DON'T kill themselves? |
Wow, we might have a Jamie special coming up. Are you going to tell us about how weak, pathetic some people can be? You know, like the folks who end up pandhandling at your local store.
| Quote: | | I've seen some do it. |
You've seen all, Jamie, and don't we just know it.
| Quote: | | The problem wasn't mainly the discrimination, it was the girl. |
And you received your therapist's degree where? |
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Molly
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| #40 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:39 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | Where is the "openly legitimised dialect discrimination", in that story? |
Should there be some?
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You have forgotten your own thread question:
| Molly wrote: | Why is dialect discrimination (unlike sexual or ethnic discrimination) still openly legitimised in the workplace?
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I note that (once again) you are unable to provide an example of "openly legitimised" dialect discrimination.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #41 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:41 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | | You have forgotten your own thread question: |
Nope, I haven't.
| Quote: | | I note that (once again) you are unable to provide an example of "openly legitimised" dialect discrimination. |
And, as I said, if you have to ask for one, you've been living on another planet. |
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Molly
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| #42 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:46 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | | And, as I said, if you have to ask for one, you've been living on another planet. |
In other words, you have no examples.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #43 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:05 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| MrPedantic wrote: | | Molly wrote: | | And, as I said, if you have to ask for one, you've been living on another planet. |
In other words, you have no examples.
MrP |
We go through the same game each time, Mr P, i.e. you ask for particular examples and I ask if you doubt such examples exist. Your question leads me to assume that you feel such descrimination does not exist. If you feel that way, why not say so? |
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Molly
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| #44 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:21 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | | We go through the same game each time, Mr P, i.e. you ask for particular examples and I ask if you doubt such examples exist. Your question leads me to assume that you feel such descrimination does not exist. |
It's much simpler than that:
1. M. posts a question about X.
2. MrP asks for evidence of X.
3. M., unable to provide evidence of X, demands that MrP provide evidence of X instead.
Which leads me to assume that M. knows very little about X.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #45 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:25 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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I would agree with the conclusions here:
4] The societal norm seems to be that attitudes about language differences don't even have to be disguised. Well-intentioned people who would be hesitant to make overt statements about race, gender or class openly mock and disparage language differences. In English with an Accent (see Resources), author Rosina Lippi-Green says that dialect discrimination is "so commonly accepted, so widely perceived as appropriate, that it must be seen as the last back door to discrimination. And the door stands wide open."
http://yehlanguageandculture.blogspot.com/2006/04/respect-for-dialects.html
It is openly legitimised on many language fora/ums. If you need concrete examples, you've been sleepwalking these past years. |
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Molly
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