|
|
#17 (permalink) Thu Apr 05, 2007 15:11 pm Expression "Worst of all" with article? |
|
|
Hi Conchita
How about these? What's your take?
(1) Tom did the best on the exam. (2) Tom does best on exams when he is not tired.
Can 'the' be omitted from (1)? Can/should 'the' be added to (2)? |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
|
#18 (permalink) Thu Apr 05, 2007 15:29 pm Expression "Worst of all" with article? |
|
|
| Yankee wrote: | Hi Conchita
How about these? What's your take?
(1) Tom did the best on the exam. (2) Tom does best on exams when he is not tired.
Can 'the' be omitted from (1)? Can/should 'the' be added to (2)? |
Aren't you getting a headache from all this?
(1) I'd omit 'the' if I meant 'he did best on this exam' (e.g. the oral exam), for example.
(2) Here, too, the meaning would change by adding the article: Tom does better than the others. However, leaving 'when he is not tired' would make it a bit ambiguous. |
|
Conchita Language Coach

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 2826 Location: Madrid, Spain
|
 |
#19 (permalink) Thu Apr 05, 2007 15:42 pm Expression "Worst of all" with article? |
|
|
| Yet another dialectal variation: I'd say 'at the exam'. |
|
Conchita Language Coach

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 2826 Location: Madrid, Spain
|
 |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
 |
#21 (permalink) Thu Apr 05, 2007 16:14 pm Expression "Worst of all" with article? |
|
|
| Conchita wrote: | | Yet another dialectal variation: I'd say 'at the exam'. | If I used 'at' in that sentence, I would be referring more to the Tom's success on the exam at the exam location rather than simply the exam and its final score in general. |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
 |
#22 (permalink) Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:52 pm Expression "Worst of all" with article? |
|
|
Dear Amy&Conchita,
Have you thought of adjective vs. adverb superlatives? I found something on the subject, so please let me know what you think. This is (a part of) what Mr Swan has to say:
Michael Swan, Practical English Usage, 2nd edition 1995
page 125
138 comparison (4): using comparatives and superlatives, Subsection 12, the with superlatives
....
THE is sometimes dropped before superlative adverbs in an informal style.
Who can run (the) fastest?
THE cannot be dropped when a superlative in predicative position is used with a defining expression.
This dictionary is the best I could find. NOT: This dictionary is best I could find.
She was the quickest of all the staff.
The is not used with superlatives in predicative position or with superlative adverbs, when we compare the same person or thing in different situations. Compare:
He's nicest when he's had a few drinks. (NOT: He's the nicest when...)
I've got a lot of friends, but he's (the) nicest.
She works hardest when she's doing something for her family. (NOT: She works the hardest when... (a woman's work is being compared in different situations.)
She works (the) hardest: her husband doesn't know what work is. (A woman is being compared with a man -- the is possible.)
So, in our case: It was worst of all in the winter as it was usually dark then. We have "something" that occurs in (at least) two or more seasons, and it gets worst in the winter. This means that we can apply Mr Swan's rule: The is not used with with superlative adverbs, when we compare the same person or thing in different situations This "something" is the same "phenomenon" in different situation i.e. season.
Let me know what you think.
Snezana |
|
Snezana I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 20 Location: Europe
|
 |
#23 (permalink) Thu Apr 12, 2007 14:45 pm Expression "Worst of all" with article? |
|
|
Hi Snezana
Thanks for posting information from Michael Swan's book about this topic. I've also got his book, but unfortunately it is in storage at the moment.
I usually agree with what Swan writes, but I think it should be noted that his book is occasionally more relevant to British English than it is to American English.
| Quote: | THE cannot be dropped when a superlative in predicative position is used with a defining expression.
This dictionary is the best I could find. NOT: This dictionary is best I could find.
She was the quickest of all the staff. | Yes, that sounds right to me.
| Quote: | | He's nicest when he's had a few drinks. (NOT: He's the nicest when...) |
| Quote: | She works hardest when she's doing something for her family. (NOT: She works the hardest when... (a woman's work is being compared in different situations.)
|
In AmE I'd say that the word 'the' would usually be dropped in the sentences above. However, I would not say that the word 'the' would never be used in them.
| Quote: | So, in our case: It was worst of all in the winter as it was usually dark then. We have "something" that occurs in (at least) two or more seasons, and it gets worst in the winter. This means that we can apply Mr Swan's rule: The is not used with with superlative adverbs, when we compare the same person or thing in different situations This "something" is the same "phenomenon" in different situation i.e. season. | I agree with your analysis, however I wouldn't say "it gets worst". With the verb 'get', I would use the comparative because 'get' indicates a change from one thing to one other thing. In other words, in this context, 'get' compares two states. So, I would say either "it gets worse" or "it is (the) worst (of all)". |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
 |
|
Snezana I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 20 Location: Europe
|
 |
#25 (permalink) Fri Apr 13, 2007 13:43 pm Expression "Worst of all" with article? |
|
|
Hi Snezana
To me, become would indicate the same thing as get -- a change from one state to another.
Yes, I suppose get(s) or become(s) might work with a superlative in some contexts. If one or more changes of state have already been specifically mentioned (with the same sort of change), then I suppose you could use 'get' or 'become' and the superlative for the final, ultimate change.
But, for the reason I've already mentioned, get and become tend to sound awkward with the superlative. |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
 |
|
| Anyhow vs. anyway | Is it an idiom: 'repeat business'? |